Climbing Business Journal Podcasts

Building Gyms from the Ground Up – Eric Hires

Today's podcast episode features an interview with gym founder Eric Hires. Eric is the co-owner of Stone Climbing, the first location of which opened in St. Augustine, Florida, several years ago. Now, there's a second Stone Climbing gym that is quickly approaching its grand opening in Jacksonville, Florida. Eric talks with host John Burgman about the development and the construction of both those gyms. The new Stone Climbing gym that's about to open in Jacksonville is a 16,000-square-foot ground-up build, with boulders and roped climbs.
The focus of this conversation with Eric is on the challenges (and opportunities) inherent in opening a gym in a place like Florida, which certainly has some gym climbing history but doesn't have an outdoor climbing heritage per se. John was also curious to get Eric's insights on the lessons he learned from opening that first gym…and how Eric is applying those lessons to the opening of a second gym. So, keep listening to hear how jotting something down on a barroom napkin was crucial in the creation of Eric's gyms in Florida.
General Topics Covered
Introduction to Stone Climbing
Climbing and Surfing Communities
Origin Story of Stone Climbing
The Bar Napkin Connection
Ground-Up Construction vs. Retrofitting
Second Location Development
Creating Beautiful Spaces
Show Notes
@stoneclimbingco
Thank you Approach and Strati for your support!And thank you Devin Dabney for your music!

Fundamentals of Paraclimbing and Parasetting – Mia DePaolis & Nat Vorel

On this expansive episode of The Impact Driver Podcast, host Holly Chen brings on two setters—Nat Vorel and Mia DePaolis—to talk about paraclimbing and parasetting, diving into fundamentals and tips that any setter can put into practice.
Nat Vorel is based in Oklahoma City and has been climbing for ten years, paraclimbing for around five of them. They are a four-time National Champion and have five World Cup podiums. Nat started setting five years ago and turned freelance recently. Nat has set for a variety of competitions, from local qualifiers and citizens comps to paraclimbing comps. They have a USAC L1 setting certification and an AMGA Single Pitch Instructor certification for guiding. Climbing and setting aside, Nat is a costume designer and would like to shout out their three tabby cats, whom they love dearly.
Mia DePaolis is the Head Routesetter at Central Rock Gym in Randolph, Massachusetts. She has been climbing for over twenty years and setting for ten of those years. After hearing from some local paraclimbers, Mia began to run an annual paraclimbing comp, the Randolph Rumble, at CRG. She is a USAC Level 3 routesetter with only one more national event to go before obtaining the next level. She is also a certified sports nutrition coach. Outside of climbing and setting, Mia worked as a beekeeper for many years and continues to love bees.
General Topics Covered
Who are paraclimbers and what are the competition categories?
Debunking common myths and assumptions about paraclimbers
Fundamentals of setting for paraclimbers
Are there distinctive tones or styles in para routes/boulders?
Paraclimbing introduces creative techniques and beta 
Paraclimbing competition basics: safety, format, scoring, time, local to world stage
Building and educating a robust volunteer parabelay community
The future of paraclimbing and the 2028 Los Angeles Olympic Games
Show Notes
Find Nat Vorel on Instagram
Find Mia DePaolis on Instagram
Central Rock Gym
USAC Paraclimbing and USAC Parasetting Clinics
IFSC Paraclimbing
Ehlers-Danlos Syndromes
Randolph Rumble, Central Rock Gym’s annual paraclimbing competition
Para Climbing Set to Make Paralympics Debut
Closing Notes
If you’d like to nominate someone as a next guest, have a topic you want to see us tackle or have questions, we’d love for you to reach out. 
The Impact Driver podcast is a production of the Climbing Business Journal. Today’s episode is sponsored by EP Climbing and Trango. It was edited and produced by Holly Yu Tung Chen, Scott Rennak and the team at CBJ. Our theme music is by Devin Dabney.

Is This HIIT Climbing Gym Starting a Trend? – Michael Hauss

On this episode of the Climbing Business Journal Podcast, host John Burgman checks out a new gym, ROQ, that is currently expected to open this fall in Seattle. The gym is quite unique in concept within the climbing gym industry, although somewhat par for the course in the fitness gym industry. Guest Michael Hauss is the founder and CEO of ROQ. The boutique climbing gym will feature high-intensity, hour-long workouts in a class setting, led by an instructor or trainer. In their conversation, Hauss and Burgman talk all about how the concept for the unique climbing gym came about, and how Hauss plans to run it in the vein of boutique fitness gyms with classes, instructors, and very high-intensity group training.
General Topics Covered
Business Concept for ROQ
Class Structure and Programming
Target Market and User Experience
Hauss' Background
Facility Design and Operations
Market Positioning
Industry Impact
Technology and Equipment Choices
Show Notes
ROQ
ROQ Instagram: @ROQClimbing
Thank you Approach and Essential Climbing for your support!And thank you Devin Dabney for your music!

Setting the Tone: What Makes a Space Feel Good? – Jesse Safford

Jesse Safford (they/them) started climbing during college in Montana, but it wasn’t until they moved to Grand Rapids, Michigan, that they stumbled upon setting. Now Jesse is the Head Setter at Terra Firma. Jesse is also an avid comp setter, chiefing and setting their annual in-house Rabble Rouser competition at Terra Firma, and has set for Death Moth, Siege the Southeast and Flight of the Phoenix, among many others. Most recently, they’re extremely excited about the upcoming Midwest Mayhem series. Outside of climbing, Jesse is a birdwatcher, Dungeons and Dragons player, and cat parent. What does D&D have to do with working on a routesetting team? How can we all play a role in improving our team dynamics? Jesse and Holly dive into those topics and much more on today’s episode.
General Topics Covered
What does it mean to have “good vibes” on a routesetting team?
How social pressure influences us in routesetting and tips for Head Setters/Event Chiefs to soften the atmosphere
Emotional awareness and situational awareness of team dynamics
What Dungeons and Dragons can teach us about team vibes
Checking in on yourself and verbalizing your own needs to the team
Role modeling vulnerability
How Jesse and our host, Holly, met / Jesse’s perfect D&D campaign
Show Notes
Find Jesse Safford on Instagram
Terra Firma
Competitions mentioned: Death Moth, Siege the Southeast, Midwest Mayhem, Flight of the Phoenix
All you need to know about Dungeons and Dragons battle strategy
Closing Notes
If you’d like to nominate someone as a next guest, have a topic you want to see us tackle or have questions, we’d love for you to reach out.
The Impact Driver podcast is a production of the Climbing Business Journal. Today’s episode is sponsored by Approach and Trango. It was edited and produced by Holly Yu Tung Chen, Scott Rennak and the team at CBJ. Our theme music is by Devin Dabney.

Hiring Is Sacred – Jonathan Brandt

Today on the Climbing Business Journal Podcast, host John Burgman meets with Jonathan Brandt. Jonathan is one of the co-founders of a new climbing gym in Holland, Michigan, called Shift. It's a 12,000-square-foot, bouldering-focused facility, and by Jonathan's own admission, there aren't a lot of bells and whistles in the gym, meaning there aren't a ton of fancy accouterments or amenities that are too far afield from climbing. Inside the space is primarily a bunch of really cool boulders and the community of staff and stoke that has developed around those blocks.
Jonathan has been in or around the climbing industry for about 20 years. So, Shift’s founding comes with a lot of expertise and experience. You'll hear Jonathan explain how and why he felt the timing was right now, after all these years, to finally open his own gym. And he acknowledges there are a ton of other bouldering gyms out there right now. So, the question becomes: How do you stand out in this day and age? How do you set your new gym apart from the pack? There are several ways to answer that question, but Jonathan's contention is that, in the case of Shift, it has a lot to do with the staff you hire and the culture that staff helps to build.
General Topics Covered
Introduction to Shift
Holland, Michigan and Gym Development
Mission and Business Philosophy
Staffing and Culture
Family Meals and Staff Development
Hospitality and Community Building
Hold Room Design and Wall Construction
Marketing and Future Plans
Show Notes
Shift
Shift Instagram: @shiftclimbing
Thank you Approach and Kilter for your support!And thank you Devin Dabney for your music!

How the Scientific Method Informs Routesetting – Carly Snidow

On this episode of the Climbing Business Journal podcast, host Holly Chen sits down with Carly Snidow. Carly is a routesetter at Vital’s Lower East Side location in Manhattan, New York. She has been climbing for almost a decade, and her setting career started like many others—setting college climbing walls and bugging local routesetters. Now, Carly is a USAC Level 1 routesetter with a dozen competitions under her belt up to the divisionals level. She has set for several citizens' comps as well, including Siege the Southeast. Carly is also a coach and personal trainer. Prior to setting, Carly studied philosophy, neuroscience and psychology. She has extensive lab experience spanning multiple disciplines, from microbiology to behavioral neuroscience and developmental psychology. Carly brings that scientific lens to the show today, challenging how we think about goal setting and success in the routesetting field.
General Topics Covered
How the scientific method can inform routesetting 
The most common success indicator for setters in climbing competitions: separation
Breaking away from separation as the only success indicator
What is inductive reasoning, and how does it relate to routesetting
Process versus outcome-oriented goal setting
How do process and outcome-oriented goal setting influence our perception in climbing and routesetting
Show Notes
Find Carly Snidow on Instagram
Vital, Lower East Side
Inductive Logic
Hippocampal and amygdala volumes vary with residential proximity to toxicants at Birmingham, Alabama's 35th Avenue Superfund site
Closing Notes
If you’d like to nominate someone as a guest, have a topic you want to see us tackle, or have questions, we’d love for you to reach out. 
The Impact Driver podcast is a production of the Climbing Business Journal. Today’s episode is sponsored by Butora and Essential Climbing. It was edited and produced by Holly Yu Tung Chen, Scott Rennak, and the team at CBJ. Our theme music is by Devin Dabney.

Group Climbing Gym Insurance Breakdown – Mark Grossman and Will Jorgensen

On this episode of the Climbing Business Journal Podcast, host Scott Rennak meets with Mark Grossman and Will Jorgensen of the Monument Sports Group. They manage the US Group Insurance Plan for our industry in partnership with the CWA, and they cover hundreds of climbing walls. Mark and Will have deep experience in facility operations. You'll hear on today’s show about their backgrounds, how they approach their insurance work, and the headwinds the indoor climbing industry is facing.
General Topics Covered
Monument Sports Group Company Background and Experience
Industry-Specific Insurance Challenges
Risk Management & Documentation Requirements
Post-Pandemic Legal Environment Changes
Routesetting Certification Evolution
Auto Belay Safety & Technology
Current Market & Political Factors
Business Operations Support
Show Notes
CWA Insurance Program
Monument Sports Group
DOXA
Thank you OnSite and Rock Gym Pro for your support!And thank you Devin Dabney for your music!

Once a Climber, Always a Climber – Obe Carrion

Obe Carrion is the guest of this episode of the Climbing Business Journal podcast, hosted by John Burgman. Obe has long been one of the biggest names in the game as a pro climber. Over the years, he has worked with multiple brands, and he's been in multiple climbing films, including the 1998’s Free Hueco! and 1999’s Rampage. He has been a coach, a mentor, and through all of the evolutions he has remained a force of nature in the climbing industry. John and Obe talk about Obe’s career and psych in climbing: how psych is never a constant, but how there can be value in it as an unknown, and in the way that motivation comes and goes and then comes back again eventually. Obe also reflects on climbing in the 1990s, the filming of that famous Rampage documentary—in which Chris Sharma stole the show at an X Games in San Francisco on this day, 26 years ago—hanging with Sharma, coaching the next generation, and evolving with the times.
General Topics Covered
Introduction and Obe's Background
Career Decisions and Early Development
Competition Scene and Mentorship
Sponsorship and Professional Development
Bouldering Boom, The Video Era
Rampage Film Production
Transition to Coaching
Coaching Philosophy and Modern Climbing
Industry Evolution
Show Notes
Find Obe Carrion on Instagram: @obe_carrion
Rampage on YouTube
Thank you Approach and Kilter for your support!And thank you Devin Dabney for your music!

Balancing Art and Functionality in Hold Shaping – Joey Jannsen

Joey is the co-founder and owner of his own hold company, called Ocelot Grips, out of Oregon. But Ocelot Grips is the end product, or at least the current end, of many, many years of Joey working in the industry as a hold shaper. He has designed and shaped holds for a lot of different brands over the years. He gets into his story in more detail in this episode, but he also offers some fascinating insights on his artistic philosophy for shapes and how that works in conjunction with his philosophy for functionality in shapes. Because hold shaping is like routesetting in that sense; it’s partially an artistic craft as well as a utilitarian or commercial craft. Art, commerce, functionality—it's all wrapped up in the life of a hold shaper. And, as a longtime shaper and setter, Joey is a great guest for riffing on all of those finer points of the craft.
General Topics Covered
Introduction and Industry Status
Joey's Background and Entry into Climbing
Oregon's Significance to Hold Shaping
Hold Design Philosophy and Learning Experiences
Aesthetics vs. Function in Hold Design
Founding Ocelot Grips
Current Work and Future Plans
Show Notes
Ocelot Grips
Ocelot Grips Instagram: @ocelotgrips
Thank you EP Climbing and Rock Gym Pro for your support!And thank you Devin Dabney for your music!

No One Sets Alone: Collective Authorship – Ruth Jang

Today’s episode brings Ruth Jang to the show. Ruth is a routesetter at Central Rock Gym in Atlanta, Georgia. She first picked up setting as a bucket list challenge and because she saw a gap in the gym: not enough entry-level, competition-style boulders for people to learn from. Her thought? “Why not infiltrate from the inside and learn from the best?” Before she knew it, she was pulled into the gravity of the setting world. Today, Ruth is a USAC Level 3 routesetter with her first national event on the horizon this June. She’s also set for citizen comps like Method Underground. Before setting, Ruth came from a background in academia and biomedical research, where she studied stem cells and the opioid epidemic.
General Topics Covered
How a negative became a positive: Ruth’s unusual introduction to climbing
An Eastern versus Western approach to team dynamics: collective and individual identity
What is true collaboration in routesetting?
The similarities between team sports and routesetting
Communication and how it can change team dynamics
Poetry and routesetting
Handling arrogance in the setting industry
Show Notes
Find Ruth Jang on Instagram
Find Ruth’s poems, Logic of the Woods, all proceeds go towards the Southeastern Climbing Coalition (SCC) and Training Indonesians for Transition to Institutional Programs (TITIP).
Central Rock Gym
What is Futsal?
The difference between Eastern and Western (collective versus individualistic). Further readings: 
How East and West think in profoundly different ways, David Robson, BBC
Cultural differences are far more nuanced than East vs West, Matt Hudson, Psyche
“I think, therefore I am.”
Resources and further reading on Eating Disorders: 
National Eating Disorder Association
National Institute of Mental Health - Eating Disorders
Closing Notes
If you’d like to nominate someone as a guest next guest, have a topic you want to see us tackle, or have questions, we’d love for you to reach out. 
The Impact Driver podcast is a production of the Climbing Business Journal. Today’s episode is sponsored by Essential Climbing and Trango. It was edited and produced by Holly Yu Tung Chen, Scott Rennak, and the team at CBJ. Our theme music is by Devin Dabney.