Climbing Business Journal Podcasts

What We Mean When We Say “Diverse Setting Teams” – CBJ Podcast with Altana Elings-Haynie

In the climbing industry, we talk a lot about diversifying setting teams. Less often do we talk about what it actually takes to lead one with humility and empathy. On this episode of the Impact Driver Podcast, host Holy Chen chats with Altana Elings-Haynie (she/they)—Assistant Routesetting Director at Movement Philadelphia—about team dynamics, leadership, and what it really means to build a setting program that supports the people in it.
Altana has been climbing most of her life, starting outside in the Gunks before finding her way into gyms as a teenager. She has been setting commercially for six years across Chicago and Philadelphia. Altana currently holds a USAC Level 2 certification, has set for over 10 championship events, and has international setting experience in Norway.
She is looking forward to chiefing the upcoming Midwest Mayhem competition.
General Topics Covered
What changes when you move from setter to manager
How to manage working styles on a diverse team and why differences in personality, background and approach can make for better setting
Dominant personalities in the room: when a strong presence lifts the team and when it starts to derail the process
Introverts in an extroverted profession: practical tips on helping quieter and newer setters shine
How to handle disagreements and conflicts on a diverse team and how to find resolution without making it personal
Grading, ego, and the old boys club dynamic
How to keep forerunning conversations objective and why ability-based dismissal should have no place in setting
The case for structured mentorship and layered leadership in setting programs
How leaders can keep the spark of curiosity alive
Show Notes
Find Altana on Instagram
Movement Philadelphia
Midwest Mayhem: A bouldering competition series based in the Midwest aimed at celebrating women, trans and nonbinary climbers and routesetters.
Nor’Easter Bouldering Series
Bolt & Revolt Setting Coalition
Closing Notes
If you’d like to nominate someone as a next guest, have a topic you want to see us tackle or have questions, we’d love for you to reach out. You can find our pitch form here.
The Impact Driver Podcast is a production of the Climbing Business Journal. Today’s episode is sponsored by Rúngne, Cascade Specialty, Trango, the Climbing Wall Association and Walltopia. It was edited and produced by Holly Yu Tung Chen, Megan Cheek, Scott Rennak and Joe Robinson, and our theme music is by Devin Dabney.
All photos below are by Avery Shandelman (@aves.eyes).

From Outsider to Industry Leader – CBJ Podcast with Alice Kao

Alice Kao is the CEO, co-founder and driving force behind Sender One, a Southern California climbing gym chain, which she has led over 13 years from a single location in Santa Ana to six gyms—with more on the way. Her path to the climbing industry was anything but conventional: A first-generation immigrant who interned at Lehman Brothers, worked in international toy sales, and discovered climbing while navigating heartbreak in London, Alice launched Sender One from savings, SBA loans, and checks from family and friends—eventually bringing on a marquee investor in pro climber Chris Sharma. She has since become a respected voice in the broader climbing business community, championing women's leadership through her involvement at CWA, and serving on the USA Climbing board of directors before a principled exit.
In this conversation with Scott Rennak, Alice opens up about what it really took to build Sender One—the years of not paying herself, the leap from side hustle to full-time commitment, and the management mistakes she had to unlearn. She also discusses an innovative funding model—a partnership with an impact investment firm to purchase her LAX flagship location—as well as her complicated but ultimately collegial departure from the USA Climbing board. With the 2028 Olympics arriving in LA and her gym sitting eight minutes from the competition venue, she's having more fun running the business than ever before.
General Topics Covered
Turning Passion into a Sustainable Business
Taking Calculated Risks as an Entrepreneur
Scaling a Climbing Gym Brand
Leadership, Growth, and Founder Evolution
Creative Approaches to Financing Expansion
Navigating Industry Politics and Governance
The Future of Climbing and the Olympic Opportunity
Show Notes
Alice Kao on Linkedin
Sender One website
Interview discussing Alice’s childhood and being a “parachute kid”
Details about the Impact Fund that purchased LAX location property
Alice’s resignation letter from USA Climbing board of directors
Thank you Climbing Wall Association, Rúngne, Walltopia, Cascade Specialty, and Rock Gym Pro for your support!And thank you Devin Dabney for your music!

The Capital “R” Routesetter – Rylan Marshall-Meistrich

What does it really mean to push an industry forward without losing sight of the people climbing on your walls? On this episode of the Impact Driver Podcast, host Holly Chen invited Rylan Marshall-Meistrich (he/him) into the studio to hear his answer.
Rylan has been climbing since 2004 and setting since 2005, starting out at ROCK’n & JAM’n (now The Spot Thornton), one of Colorado's earliest climbing gyms. He then worked at Planet Granite in San Francisco and a stint in Tahoe before returning to Colorado in 2017 as head setter at Movement Boulder. Now, Rylan is Movement’s Colorado Director of Setting.
With nearly two decades of setting experience, Rylan has set at nearly every discipline of USA Climbing nationals and holds a USAC Level 5 certification. Outside the gym, he runs a small recording studio in his basement and has been playing music since middle school—a side of him that shows up more in his setting philosophy than you might expect.
General Topics Covered
What is a routesetter's job, really? 
Setting for your audience: from professional athletes to the birthday party room
Setting for yourself: when it can serve the climber and when it only serves yourself
The fine line between creativity versus usability
The impermanence problem: why routesetting innovation often has to happen slowly and what that means for setters trying to push the envelope 
How trends move through the industry and the difference between duplication and emulation 
The difference between vertical and lateral career progression in routesetting 
The USAC pipeline, online presence, and how setters are building reputations in a more competitive field
Where competition bouldering is heading, and an honest reckoning with what experience actually means with a long career
Show Notes
Movement Gyms Colorado
Necessity Breeds Invention – the Impact Driver Podcast with Andy Nelson
On Eye-Pro, Ugly Boulders, and Influencers – the Impact Driver Podcast with Kegan Minock
Lessons From the Sharp End of Modern Setting – the Impact Driver Podcast with Mike Bockino
Steal Like an Artist: 10 Things Nobody Told You About Being Creative by Austin Kleon
Born from the Climbing Life: Episode 4—Drifter’s Escape—The World’s Hardest Trad Climb
Closing Notes
If you’d like to nominate someone as a guest next guest, have a topic you want to see us tackle or have questions, we’d love for you to reach out. You can find our pitch form here.
The Impact Driver Podcast is a production of the Climbing Business Journal. Today’s episode is sponsored by Rúngne, Cascade Specialty, Trango, the Climbing Wall Association, and Kilter. It was edited and produced by Holly Yu Tung Chen, Megan Cheek, Scott Rennak and Joe Robinson, and our theme music is by Devin Dabney.

Collaboration, Grit, and Crag Care – Jason Haas

In this week’s episode, Scott Rennak interviews Jason Haas, co-founder of G1 Climbing + Fitness. Jason shares his extensive journey in climbing, from his early days on Michigan sandstone and dirtbagging out of a Saturn to climbing on nearly every continent. He reflects on his work as a prolific first ascensionist with over 700 routes, authoring 12 guidebooks, contributing to the early development of the Boulder Climbing Community nonprofit, and replacing aging bolts across Colorado in partnership with organizations like the American Safe Climbing Association.
Jason discusses balancing a 15-year teaching career alongside his climbing pursuits, as well, and how that experience shaped his perspective as a gym owner. He dives into the challenges of launching G1, including navigating multiple failed locations, zoning hurdles, and ultimately opening just one week before the COVID-19 shutdown. The conversation also explores Jason’s role in developing the Climb Pass to foster collaboration across the Colorado Front Range, his views on auto belays, gym-to-outdoors stewardship, and his grit-first philosophy on building both a business and a life in climbing.
General Topics Covered
Jason Haas’s path from climber to gym owner
Opening G1 Climbing Gym and overcoming development challenges
Navigating COVID-19 as a new gym owner
Industry collaboration through the “Climb Pass” initiative
Stewardship and involvement with American Safe Climbing Association and Boulder Climbing Community
Gym responsibility in safety, education, and community building
Show Notes
G1 Climbing + Fitness
The CLIMB Pass
Boulder Climbing Community
American Safe Climbing Association
Climbing Boulder's Flatirons (Jason's guidebook)
Thank you Cascade Specialty, Rúngne, Climbing Wall Association, Essential and Approach for your support!And thank you Devin Dabney for your music!

Where You Feel Comfortable, You Try Harder – Zoey Grinstead

Today’s episode of the Impact Driver Podcast welcomes Zoey Grinstead (she/they), Los Angeles-based routesetter and Queer Crush founder, to the recording studio.
In a sport that prides itself on counter-cultural roots and community values, the gap between that identity and lived reality for many climbers is still very much worth talking about. The question of who belongs in routesetting—and who feels like they don’t—has arguably never been more urgent. Zoey brings a grounded, no-nonsense perspective on identity, community, and creative expression in routesetting to this week’s conversation, as she and Holly Chen discuss all these topics as well as tips for fostering inclusion.
Zoey is a routesetter at Touchstone Climbing in Los Angeles, where she has been part of the team for nearly 15 years, starting as a belay staff member before finding her way to the setting closet. With over a decade of setting experience, Zoe has worked in commercial and competition settings alike, including notable events like Death Moth in 2026 and multiple Women Up competitions. She holds a USAC Level 2 certification and is a former president of Queer Crush, a nonprofit dedicated to holding space for the queer community within climbing. Beyond the gym, Zoe is currently a student.
General Topics Covered
How Zoey found her way into routesetting (from wilderness therapy kid to full-time setter)
Queer Crush: what it is, how it started, and why Zoe got involved
Affinity spaces in climbing: what they are, why they matter, and what they offer that the broader community doesn't
Routesetting as a relative bubble: is our profession more inclusive than the broader climbing world?
Tokenization in routesetting: how to recognize it, and how to push through it
How setter identity and body type shape the climbing on the wall (and why diverse teams can set better gyms)
Practical ways to support marginalized setters and help them feel at home, from offering the fiberglass to donating to affinity organizations
The setting bag confessional: what's always in there and never gets used
Show Notes
Find Zoey Grinstead on Instagram
Touchstone Climbing and the Woman Up Climbing Festival
Keep Them Sketched Out – Impact Driver Podcast with Claire Kawainui Miller
Death Moth Climbing Competition
Queer Crush Climbing
Routesetting and climbing affinity spaces: Bolt & Revolt Setting Coalition, Brown Girls Climb, Cruxing in Color, Flash Foxy 
USAC Routesetting Resources: Path of a Routesetter (updated), Routesetting Level Prerequisites
Closing Notes
If you’d like to nominate someone as a guest next guest, have a topic you want to see us tackle or have questions, we’d love for you to reach out. You can find our pitch form here.
The Impact Driver podcast is a production of the Climbing Business Journal. Today’s episode is sponsored by Rúngne, Climbing Wall Association, Cascade Specialty, Trango and Rock Gym Pro. It was edited and produced by Holly Yu Tung Chen, Megan Cheek, Scott Rennak and Joe Robinson, and our theme music is by Devin Dabney.

Athletes, Training Centers & Road to LA28 – Marc Norman

In this week’s episode, Scott Rennak sits down with Marc Norman, CEO of USA Climbing, who has been in this role for eight years and came to it with unique credentials. Previously, Marc spent two decades at the Utah Olympic Legacy Foundation, finishing as VP of Sport and Venues—overseeing three Olympic facilities, 300 employees, and the kind of large-scale operations that come with hosting some of the world's biggest sporting events. He was also a competitive athlete and has a lifelong love of climbing that dates back to a Wisconsin crag in the early ‘90s.
During their conversation, Marc and Scott dig into some deep topics within competition climbing today. They cover USA Climbing's ambitious National Training Center project in Salt Lake City—including the partnership with Momentum, the community pushback, and how the facility is being designed to serve athletes. They also explore the youth athlete pipeline, how climbing can capitalize on its LA 2028 Olympic moment (including paraclimbing's debut on the Paralympic program), and what it's going to take for the whole industry to convert that exposure into real foot traffic and long-term growth.
General Topics Covered
Leadership and Background of Marc Norman
National Training Center Project in Salt Lake City
Industry Partnerships (USA Climbing × Momentum)
Community Response and Pushback
Youth Athlete Pipeline Development
Olympics and Global Exposure (LA 2028 and paraclimbing)
Converting Awareness Into Gym Growth
Show Notes
USA Climbing
USAC National Training Center
USAC Strategic Planning
Climbing at LA28
Marc Norman on Linkedin
Thank you Cascade Specialty, Climbing Wall Association, Rúngne, Rock Gym Pro and Kilter for your support!And thank you Devin Dabney for your music!

Creative Ego: The Good and The Bad – Zuoyi Phang

Today’s guest is Zuoyi (pronounced: Zoe) Phang, a routesetter based in Durham, North Carolina, and a member of the setting team at Triangle Rock Club. Zuoyi began climbing in 2018 after a friend invited her to a gym birthday party and she quickly “fell down the rabbit hold,” climbing nearly every day while balancing long shifts in the service industry. Not long after, she was recruited into routesetting and has been building her experience ever since, working across multiple Triangle Rock Club locations and setting USA Climbing events across the Southeast. Notably, Zuoyi has also set for Siege the Southeast. Zuoyi is a USA Climbing Level 2 routesetter with plans to step into her first chief roles in the near future.
In this episode, Zuoyi and host Holly Chen dive into the human side of routesetting: the emotions that come with creative work, the role ego plays in the craft, and how team members can support each other through the inevitable frictions of collaborative setting.
General Topics Covered
Why routesetting can be more emotional than people expect
Managing frustration, feedback and vulnerability when sharing climbs with the public
How ego shows up in routesetting, and the difference between healthy pride and destructive ego
Using curiosity and communication to navigate disagreements about grades, movement and style
How body types, strengths, and climbing backgrounds shape setters’ perspectives
Recognizing when a teammate is struggling and how crews can support each other during a tough day
The role of leadership and crew dynamics in diffusing tension on a setting team
Balancing innovation and practicality when testing new ideas on the wall
What an ideal routesetting team culture can look like, and the importance of staying serious about the craft but lighthearted enough to enjoy the process
Show Notes
Find Zuoyi Phang on Instagram
Triangle Rock Club
Siege Climbing
An Episode of Affirmations: Battling Imposter Syndrome with Ethan Paris
Closing Notes
If you’d like to nominate someone as a guest next guest, have a topic you want to see us tackle or have questions, we’d love for you to reach out. You can find our pitch form here.
The Impact Driver Podcast is a production of the Climbing Business Journal. Today’s episode is sponsored by Rúngne, Cascade Specialty, Trango, Approach and Onsite. It was edited and produced by Holly Yu Tung Chen, Megan Cheek, Scott Rennak and Joe Robinson, and our theme music is by Devin Dabney.

Building Gyms and a Career in Climbing – Brett Jessen

In this episode, Scott Rennak interviews Brett Jessen, the Head of Climbing Environments at Bouldering Project. Brett talks about his extensive journey in the climbing industry, from his early days as a climber and routesetter in the ‘90s to his current role in building cutting-edge climbing gyms. He discusses the evolution of climbing gyms, the design and construction process, and the importance of community and culture in climbing. Brett also offers valuable advice for aspiring gym owners and reflects on the future of the climbing industry.
General Topics Covered
Brett’s path to his current role
Collaboration between architects and engineers during the design process
Advice for aspiring gym owners on understanding a market and building requirements
The significant planning and budgeting that comes with constructing a gym
Challenges of working with historical buildings
Importance of educating climbers about outdoor ethics
Show Notes
Bouldering Project
CBJ article about St. Paul BP
Thank you Rúngne, Approach, Essential, Flashed, and OnSite for your support! And thank you Devin Dabney for your music!

Inside USA Climbing’s Routesetting Program – Jeremy Ho

Today’s guest is Jeremy Ho, who many  know as JHo, one of the most recognizable names in the U.S. setting community. Jeremy has worked in the climbing industry since 2007, primarily as a routesetter, and has been a National Routesetter with USA Climbing since 2012. He now serves as USAC's National Routesetting Program Manager, helping shape education, pathways, and standards across the country. Previously, Jeremy was Director of Routesetting at Touchstone Climbing and Sportrock Climbing Centers, and he has set events ranging from USAC Team Trials and Open Bouldering Nationals to Bouldering World Cups and North American Cup Series competitions. Jeremy and host Holly Chen dive into leadership, development, and the realities of building a sustainable national routesetting pipeline in this episode.
General Topics Covered
Leading a national routesetting program and stepping into a national leadership role
Clearer USA Climbing pathways and clinic structure
Representation, access, and underrepresented setter initiatives
New prerequisites and partnerships (PRS clinics) to better prepare setters before entering USA Climbing clinics
Youth competition difficulty and long-term athlete retention
Bottlenecks and what really moves setters forward in the USAC pipeline
Crew selection, team cohesion, and why soft skills matter at high-level events
Show Notes
Find Jeremy Ho on Instagram 
USA Climbing Routesetter Resources 
USA Climbing Routesetter Pathway
Amy Stone Foundation
Closing Notes
If you’d like to nominate someone as a guest next guest, have a topic you want to see us tackle or have questions, we’d love for you to reach out. You can find our pitch form here.
The Impact Driver podcast is a production of the Climbing Business Journal. Today’s episode is sponsored by Rúngne, Approach, Essential, Onsite and Flashed. It was edited and produced by Holly Yu Tung Chen, Megan Cheek, Scott Rennak and Joe Robinson, and our theme music is by Devin Dabney.

Leading the World’s Largest Climbing Gym Chain – Anne-Worley Moelter

Today’s episode is a rare interview with Anne-Worley Moelter, one of the most accomplished and experienced professionals in the climbing industry. Currently she serves as CEO of Movement Climbing Gyms, the largest chain of climbing gyms in the world. But her start in our industry began over 25 years ago in Colorado, when she was a manager at Boulder’s first full climbing gym. She later co-founded the first Movement location with her husband Mike Moelter, after spending half a decade as USA Climbing’s first Executive Director. She’s also currently a Vice President of World Climbing, formerly the International Federation of Sport Climbing.
Through her wealth of experience, Anne-Worley has learned a lot about our industry, careers, personal and professional motivations for climbing, and much more. In this episode she sits down with Scott to share her insights, from leadership wisdom to stewardship guidance and beyond.
General Topics Covered
Anne-Worley’s background
Perspectives on climbing industry career development
Leadership culture to nurture careers
Unionization at Movement
How private equity can affect a business
Differentiation, competition and saturation
Stewardship of outdoor climbing spaces
Show Notes
Movement Climbing Gyms
Movement Instagram
CBJ Article with Anne-Worley Moelter
Thank you Rúngne, Rock Gym Pro, Kilter, Strati Climbing and Trango for your support!And thank you Devin Dabney for your music!