Climbing Business Journal Podcasts

Most climbing gyms have youth climbers, whether they’re a part of recreational clubs, elite climbing teams, or hanging around with their parents. Most setters will set for youth climbers one way or another. What happens when a coach turned routesetter decides to merge the two professions? What can one reveal about the other?
On this episode of the Impact Driver Podcast, host Holly Chen talks with Cate Beebe—a Bend, Oregon-based routesetter and coach—about what happens when setting and coaching are practiced as a shared profession.
Cate came to climbing from a gym in Burlington, Vermont, before moving west in 2022 to set at Bend Rock Gym and coach for Bend Endurance Academy. She holds a USAC Level 3 certification and has set across QEs, regionals and divisionals, with a focus almost entirely on youth competition setting. She coaches athletes ranging from elementary schoolers to the Oregon State University collegiate climbing team, and she has built her philosophy around a simple conviction: that sport should be a place where kids feel powerful, heard and accepted.
In this episode, Cate and Holly get into what it looks like to wear two hats at once, why children are not small forerunners, and what setters might be missing by not spending more time on the ground.
General Topics Covered
Coach first, setter second: how Cate's identity in the industry was shaped by the order in which she came to each discipline
What success looks like as a coach across a wide developmental range, from toddler climbers to collegiate athletes
Why the foundation of Cate's coaching philosophy has nothing to do with climbing grades
The two-hats framework: how Cate moves between setter mode and coach mode on any given day, and why keeping them distinct matters
How understanding the way different bodies and brains see movement changes what you put on the wall
What coaching has taught Cate about movement that setting alone couldn't, and vice versa
Why setters who coach tend to give away the beta too soon
What setting education could look like if coaching fundamentals were part of setting certifications
Shenanigans as a professional philosophy: why playfulness is not optional in either a setting environment or a coaching one
Advice for setters who want to think more like coaches, and coaches who want to think more like setters
Show Notes
Find Cate Beebe on Instagram and learn more about Cate’s work
Bend Endurance Academy
USA Climbing Youth Series
Understanding Constants Over Time – Impact Drive Podcast with Claire Gordon
Balancing Art and Functionality in Hold Shaping – CBJ Podcast with Joey Jannsen
Other youth-specific climbing gyms: Rock City, ABC Kids Climbing
Closing Notes
If you’d like to nominate someone as a next guest, have a topic you want to see us tackle or have questions, we’d love for you to reach out. You can find our pitch form here.
The Impact Driver Podcast is a production of the Climbing Business Journal. Today’s episode is sponsored by Rúngne, Cascade Specialty, Trango, the Climbing Wall Association and Walltopia. It was edited and produced by Holly Yu Tung Chen, Megan Cheek, Scott Rennak and Joe Robinson, and our theme music is by Devin Dabney.
All photos below are courtesy of Cate Beebe.

Theresa Morris has practically spent her life on the rock, ever since she started as a kid climbing the Flatirons above Boulder with her uncle before climbing gyms existed. That early love of climbing followed her into a 30-year teaching career at Cherry Creek School District, where she built outdoor education programs, and that work eventually led her to found what would become the American Scholastic Climbing League.
In this episode, Theresa walks through the ASCL's journey from a three-kid experiment at a single gym to a nonprofit spanning multiple states. She unpacks the operational realities behind running a scholastic league—insurance, membership fees, regional structures, and what it actually takes to start a new region from the ground up. Theresa and Scott dig into how the league serves as both an on-ramp for recreational climbers and a feeder system for more competitive athletes, and why she believes climbing offers something increasingly rare for kids: an in-person, phone-free community built around personal growth rather than just winning.
General Topics Covered
Theresa's climbing path, from childhood experiences through a career in education
How a chance climbing competition in Amsterdam sparked the idea for a scholastic climbing league back home
The origins as the Colorado High School Climbing League
Why the group formalized into the ASCL nonprofit in 2018
How membership fees fund the league's infrastructure
The ASCL's mission: connecting kids to climbing and to a supportive community, beyond just competition and rankings
How schools recognize climbing teams and the push toward broader athletic recognition
What it takes for a gym or region to get involved
Theresa's vision for the ASCL's growth and expansion into new states and regions
Show Notes
American Scholastic Climbing League website
Thank you Rúngne, Walltopia, Cascade Specialty, Climbing Wall Association and Kilter Grips for your support! And thank you Devin Dabney for your music!

Routesetters spend years developing an instinct for what works and what doesn’t. Today’s guest of The Impact Driver Podcast has developed a framework to explain why it works.
On this episode of The Impact Driver Podcast, host Holly Chen talks with Salt Lake City-based routesetter and Momentum Climbing Director of Setting Kenny Benson about what it actually means to set with intention. Kenny explains routesetting through five distinct lenses and how they can transform the way a setter approaches their craft.
Kenny has been setting for nearly fourteen years, starting in Houston before working his way through North Carolina and the Bay Area before ultimately landing at Momentum, where he has spent the last nine years. He holds a USAC Level 4 certification and has become one of the more prominent voices in paraclimbing setting, having set at multiple Para Nationals and Para World Cups.
Outside the gym, he is a devoted music listener, a former skateboarder, and an occasional painter.
General Topics Covered
Kenny's five-lens framework for intentional setting: aesthetics, physical, cognitive, emotional and cultural
Aesthetics as the first impression
What a climb communicates before anyone pulls on a hold, and why form and function don't have to compete
The physical lens: grade consistency, and equitability in sizing
Creating experiences that work differently for different bodies without shutting anyone out
The cognitive lens: how routesetters build a movement encyclopedia for climbers
Why moderate climbers deserve as much creative investment as anyone else
The emotional lens: designing for confidence, frustration and progression
The difference between making someone feel challenged versus making someone feel lost
The cultural lens: how setting programs shape not just what people climb
What the industry risks by optimizing for digestibility over development
What gets lost as gyms scale?
How to bring a higher-stakes mindset to a commercial setting day without burning out
Show Notes
Find Kenny Benson on Instagram
Momentum Climbing Gyms
The Nugget Climbing Episode 40: Tonde Katiyo (Part 1)
The Capital “R” Routesetter – The Impact Driver Podcast with Rylan Marshall-Meistrich
Fundamentals of Paraclimbing and Parasetting – The Impact Driver Podcast with Mia DePaolis & Nat Vorel
Bouldering Project Grading System
B-Pump Climbing Gym
Closing Notes
If you’d like to nominate someone as a next guest, have a topic you want to see us tackle or have questions, we’d love for you to reach out. You can find our pitch form here.
The Impact Driver Podcast is a production of the Climbing Business Journal. Today’s episode is sponsored by Rúngne, Cascade Specialty, Trango, the Climbing Wall Association and Rock Gym Pro. It was edited and produced by Holly Yu Tung Chen, Megan Cheek, Scott Rennak and Joe Robinson, and our theme music is by Devin Dabney.

In the climbing industry, we talk a lot about diversifying setting teams. Less often do we talk about what it actually takes to lead one with humility and empathy. On this episode of the Impact Driver Podcast, host Holy Chen chats with Altana Elings-Haynie (she/they)—Assistant Routesetting Director at Movement Philadelphia—about team dynamics, leadership, and what it really means to build a setting program that supports the people in it.
Altana has been climbing most of her life, starting outside in the Gunks before finding her way into gyms as a teenager. She has been setting commercially for six years across Chicago and Philadelphia. Altana currently holds a USAC Level 2 certification, has set for over 10 championship events, and has international setting experience in Norway.
She is looking forward to chiefing the upcoming Midwest Mayhem competition.
General Topics Covered
What changes when you move from setter to manager
How to manage working styles on a diverse team and why differences in personality, background and approach can make for better setting
Dominant personalities in the room: when a strong presence lifts the team and when it starts to derail the process
Introverts in an extroverted profession: practical tips on helping quieter and newer setters shine
How to handle disagreements and conflicts on a diverse team and how to find resolution without making it personal
Grading, ego, and the old boys club dynamic
How to keep forerunning conversations objective and why ability-based dismissal should have no place in setting
The case for structured mentorship and layered leadership in setting programs
How leaders can keep the spark of curiosity alive
Show Notes
Find Altana on Instagram
Movement Philadelphia
Midwest Mayhem: A bouldering competition series based in the Midwest aimed at celebrating women, trans and nonbinary climbers and routesetters.
Nor’Easter Bouldering Series
Bolt & Revolt Setting Coalition
Closing Notes
If you’d like to nominate someone as a next guest, have a topic you want to see us tackle or have questions, we’d love for you to reach out. You can find our pitch form here.
The Impact Driver Podcast is a production of the Climbing Business Journal. Today’s episode is sponsored by Rúngne, Cascade Specialty, Trango, the Climbing Wall Association and Walltopia. It was edited and produced by Holly Yu Tung Chen, Megan Cheek, Scott Rennak and Joe Robinson, and our theme music is by Devin Dabney.
All photos below are by Avery Shandelman (@aves.eyes).

Alice Kao is the CEO, co-founder and driving force behind Sender One, a Southern California climbing gym chain, which she has led over 13 years from a single location in Santa Ana to six gyms—with more on the way. Her path to the climbing industry was anything but conventional: A first-generation immigrant who interned at Lehman Brothers, worked in international toy sales, and discovered climbing while navigating heartbreak in London, Alice launched Sender One from savings, SBA loans, and checks from family and friends—eventually bringing on a marquee investor in pro climber Chris Sharma. She has since become a respected voice in the broader climbing business community, championing women's leadership through her involvement at CWA, and serving on the USA Climbing board of directors before a principled exit.
In this conversation with Scott Rennak, Alice opens up about what it really took to build Sender One—the years of not paying herself, the leap from side hustle to full-time commitment, and the management mistakes she had to unlearn. She also discusses an innovative funding model—a partnership with an impact investment firm to purchase her LAX flagship location—as well as her complicated but ultimately collegial departure from the USA Climbing board. With the 2028 Olympics arriving in LA and her gym sitting eight minutes from the competition venue, she's having more fun running the business than ever before.
General Topics Covered
Turning Passion into a Sustainable Business
Taking Calculated Risks as an Entrepreneur
Scaling a Climbing Gym Brand
Leadership, Growth, and Founder Evolution
Creative Approaches to Financing Expansion
Navigating Industry Politics and Governance
The Future of Climbing and the Olympic Opportunity
Show Notes
Alice Kao on Linkedin
Sender One website
Interview discussing Alice’s childhood and being a “parachute kid”
Details about the Impact Fund that purchased LAX location property
Alice’s resignation letter from USA Climbing board of directors
Thank you Climbing Wall Association, Rúngne, Walltopia, Cascade Specialty, and Rock Gym Pro for your support!And thank you Devin Dabney for your music!

What does it really mean to push an industry forward without losing sight of the people climbing on your walls? On this episode of the Impact Driver Podcast, host Holly Chen invited Rylan Marshall-Meistrich (he/him) into the studio to hear his answer.
Rylan has been climbing since 2004 and setting since 2005, starting out at ROCK’n & JAM’n (now The Spot Thornton), one of Colorado's earliest climbing gyms. He then worked at Planet Granite in San Francisco and a stint in Tahoe before returning to Colorado in 2017 as head setter at Movement Boulder. Now, Rylan is Movement’s Colorado Director of Setting.
With nearly two decades of setting experience, Rylan has set at nearly every discipline of USA Climbing nationals and holds a USAC Level 5 certification. Outside the gym, he runs a small recording studio in his basement and has been playing music since middle school—a side of him that shows up more in his setting philosophy than you might expect.
General Topics Covered
What is a routesetter's job, really? 
Setting for your audience: from professional athletes to the birthday party room
Setting for yourself: when it can serve the climber and when it only serves yourself
The fine line between creativity versus usability
The impermanence problem: why routesetting innovation often has to happen slowly and what that means for setters trying to push the envelope 
How trends move through the industry and the difference between duplication and emulation 
The difference between vertical and lateral career progression in routesetting 
The USAC pipeline, online presence, and how setters are building reputations in a more competitive field
Where competition bouldering is heading, and an honest reckoning with what experience actually means with a long career
Show Notes
Movement Gyms Colorado
Necessity Breeds Invention – the Impact Driver Podcast with Andy Nelson
On Eye-Pro, Ugly Boulders, and Influencers – the Impact Driver Podcast with Kegan Minock
Lessons From the Sharp End of Modern Setting – the Impact Driver Podcast with Mike Bockino
Steal Like an Artist: 10 Things Nobody Told You About Being Creative by Austin Kleon
Born from the Climbing Life: Episode 4—Drifter’s Escape—The World’s Hardest Trad Climb
Closing Notes
If you’d like to nominate someone as a guest next guest, have a topic you want to see us tackle or have questions, we’d love for you to reach out. You can find our pitch form here.
The Impact Driver Podcast is a production of the Climbing Business Journal. Today’s episode is sponsored by Rúngne, Cascade Specialty, Trango, the Climbing Wall Association, and Kilter. It was edited and produced by Holly Yu Tung Chen, Megan Cheek, Scott Rennak and Joe Robinson, and our theme music is by Devin Dabney.

In this week’s episode, Scott Rennak interviews Jason Haas, co-founder of G1 Climbing + Fitness. Jason shares his extensive journey in climbing, from his early days on Michigan sandstone and dirtbagging out of a Saturn to climbing on nearly every continent. He reflects on his work as a prolific first ascensionist with over 700 routes, authoring 12 guidebooks, contributing to the early development of the Boulder Climbing Community nonprofit, and replacing aging bolts across Colorado in partnership with organizations like the American Safe Climbing Association.
Jason discusses balancing a 15-year teaching career alongside his climbing pursuits, as well, and how that experience shaped his perspective as a gym owner. He dives into the challenges of launching G1, including navigating multiple failed locations, zoning hurdles, and ultimately opening just one week before the COVID-19 shutdown. The conversation also explores Jason’s role in developing the Climb Pass to foster collaboration across the Colorado Front Range, his views on auto belays, gym-to-outdoors stewardship, and his grit-first philosophy on building both a business and a life in climbing.
General Topics Covered
Jason Haas’s path from climber to gym owner
Opening G1 Climbing Gym and overcoming development challenges
Navigating COVID-19 as a new gym owner
Industry collaboration through the “Climb Pass” initiative
Stewardship and involvement with American Safe Climbing Association and Boulder Climbing Community
Gym responsibility in safety, education, and community building
Show Notes
G1 Climbing + Fitness
The CLIMB Pass
Boulder Climbing Community
American Safe Climbing Association
Climbing Boulder's Flatirons (Jason's guidebook)
Thank you Cascade Specialty, Rúngne, Climbing Wall Association, Essential and Approach for your support!And thank you Devin Dabney for your music!

Today’s episode of the Impact Driver Podcast welcomes Zoey Grinstead (she/they), Los Angeles-based routesetter and Queer Crush founder, to the recording studio.
In a sport that prides itself on counter-cultural roots and community values, the gap between that identity and lived reality for many climbers is still very much worth talking about. The question of who belongs in routesetting—and who feels like they don’t—has arguably never been more urgent. Zoey brings a grounded, no-nonsense perspective on identity, community, and creative expression in routesetting to this week’s conversation, as she and Holly Chen discuss all these topics as well as tips for fostering inclusion.
Zoey is a routesetter at Touchstone Climbing in Los Angeles, where she has been part of the team for nearly 15 years, starting as a belay staff member before finding her way to the setting closet. With over a decade of setting experience, Zoe has worked in commercial and competition settings alike, including notable events like Death Moth in 2026 and multiple Women Up competitions. She holds a USAC Level 2 certification and is a former president of Queer Crush, a nonprofit dedicated to holding space for the queer community within climbing. Beyond the gym, Zoe is currently a student.
General Topics Covered
How Zoey found her way into routesetting (from wilderness therapy kid to full-time setter)
Queer Crush: what it is, how it started, and why Zoe got involved
Affinity spaces in climbing: what they are, why they matter, and what they offer that the broader community doesn't
Routesetting as a relative bubble: is our profession more inclusive than the broader climbing world?
Tokenization in routesetting: how to recognize it, and how to push through it
How setter identity and body type shape the climbing on the wall (and why diverse teams can set better gyms)
Practical ways to support marginalized setters and help them feel at home, from offering the fiberglass to donating to affinity organizations
The setting bag confessional: what's always in there and never gets used
Show Notes
Find Zoey Grinstead on Instagram
Touchstone Climbing and the Woman Up Climbing Festival
Keep Them Sketched Out – Impact Driver Podcast with Claire Kawainui Miller
Death Moth Climbing Competition
Queer Crush Climbing
Routesetting and climbing affinity spaces: Bolt & Revolt Setting Coalition, Brown Girls Climb, Cruxing in Color, Flash Foxy 
USAC Routesetting Resources: Path of a Routesetter (updated), Routesetting Level Prerequisites
Closing Notes
If you’d like to nominate someone as a guest next guest, have a topic you want to see us tackle or have questions, we’d love for you to reach out. You can find our pitch form here.
The Impact Driver podcast is a production of the Climbing Business Journal. Today’s episode is sponsored by Rúngne, Climbing Wall Association, Cascade Specialty, Trango and Rock Gym Pro. It was edited and produced by Holly Yu Tung Chen, Megan Cheek, Scott Rennak and Joe Robinson, and our theme music is by Devin Dabney.

In this week’s episode, Scott Rennak sits down with Marc Norman, CEO of USA Climbing, who has been in this role for eight years and came to it with unique credentials. Previously, Marc spent two decades at the Utah Olympic Legacy Foundation, finishing as VP of Sport and Venues—overseeing three Olympic facilities, 300 employees, and the kind of large-scale operations that come with hosting some of the world's biggest sporting events. He was also a competitive athlete and has a lifelong love of climbing that dates back to a Wisconsin crag in the early ‘90s.
During their conversation, Marc and Scott dig into some deep topics within competition climbing today. They cover USA Climbing's ambitious National Training Center project in Salt Lake City—including the partnership with Momentum, the community pushback, and how the facility is being designed to serve athletes. They also explore the youth athlete pipeline, how climbing can capitalize on its LA 2028 Olympic moment (including paraclimbing's debut on the Paralympic program), and what it's going to take for the whole industry to convert that exposure into real foot traffic and long-term growth.
General Topics Covered
Leadership and Background of Marc Norman
National Training Center Project in Salt Lake City
Industry Partnerships (USA Climbing × Momentum)
Community Response and Pushback
Youth Athlete Pipeline Development
Olympics and Global Exposure (LA 2028 and paraclimbing)
Converting Awareness Into Gym Growth
Show Notes
USA Climbing
USAC National Training Center
USAC Strategic Planning
Climbing at LA28
Marc Norman on Linkedin
Thank you Cascade Specialty, Climbing Wall Association, Rúngne, Rock Gym Pro and Kilter for your support!And thank you Devin Dabney for your music!

Today’s guest is Zuoyi (pronounced: Zoe) Phang, a routesetter based in Durham, North Carolina, and a member of the setting team at Triangle Rock Club. Zuoyi began climbing in 2018 after a friend invited her to a gym birthday party and she quickly “fell down the rabbit hold,” climbing nearly every day while balancing long shifts in the service industry. Not long after, she was recruited into routesetting and has been building her experience ever since, working across multiple Triangle Rock Club locations and setting USA Climbing events across the Southeast. Notably, Zuoyi has also set for Siege the Southeast. Zuoyi is a USA Climbing Level 2 routesetter with plans to step into her first chief roles in the near future.
In this episode, Zuoyi and host Holly Chen dive into the human side of routesetting: the emotions that come with creative work, the role ego plays in the craft, and how team members can support each other through the inevitable frictions of collaborative setting.
General Topics Covered
Why routesetting can be more emotional than people expect
Managing frustration, feedback and vulnerability when sharing climbs with the public
How ego shows up in routesetting, and the difference between healthy pride and destructive ego
Using curiosity and communication to navigate disagreements about grades, movement and style
How body types, strengths, and climbing backgrounds shape setters’ perspectives
Recognizing when a teammate is struggling and how crews can support each other during a tough day
The role of leadership and crew dynamics in diffusing tension on a setting team
Balancing innovation and practicality when testing new ideas on the wall
What an ideal routesetting team culture can look like, and the importance of staying serious about the craft but lighthearted enough to enjoy the process
Show Notes
Find Zuoyi Phang on Instagram
Triangle Rock Club
Siege Climbing
An Episode of Affirmations: Battling Imposter Syndrome with Ethan Paris
Closing Notes
If you’d like to nominate someone as a guest next guest, have a topic you want to see us tackle or have questions, we’d love for you to reach out. You can find our pitch form here.
The Impact Driver Podcast is a production of the Climbing Business Journal. Today’s episode is sponsored by Rúngne, Cascade Specialty, Trango, Approach and Onsite. It was edited and produced by Holly Yu Tung Chen, Megan Cheek, Scott Rennak and Joe Robinson, and our theme music is by Devin Dabney.