Climbing Business Journal Podcasts

Creative Ego: The Good and The Bad – Zuoyi Phang

Today’s guest is Zuoyi (pronounced: Zoe) Phang, a routesetter based in Durham, North Carolina, and a member of the setting team at Triangle Rock Club. Zuoyi began climbing in 2018 after a friend invited her to a gym birthday party and she quickly “fell down the rabbit hold,” climbing nearly every day while balancing long shifts in the service industry. Not long after, she was recruited into routesetting and has been building her experience ever since, working across multiple Triangle Rock Club locations and setting USA Climbing events across the Southeast. Notably, Zuoyi has also set for Siege the Southeast. Zuoyi is a USA Climbing Level 2 routesetter with plans to step into her first chief roles in the near future.
In this episode, Zuoyi and host Holly Chen dive into the human side of routesetting: the emotions that come with creative work, the role ego plays in the craft, and how team members can support each other through the inevitable frictions of collaborative setting.
General Topics Covered
Why routesetting can be more emotional than people expect
Managing frustration, feedback and vulnerability when sharing climbs with the public
How ego shows up in routesetting, and the difference between healthy pride and destructive ego
Using curiosity and communication to navigate disagreements about grades, movement and style
How body types, strengths, and climbing backgrounds shape setters’ perspectives
Recognizing when a teammate is struggling and how crews can support each other during a tough day
The role of leadership and crew dynamics in diffusing tension on a setting team
Balancing innovation and practicality when testing new ideas on the wall
What an ideal routesetting team culture can look like, and the importance of staying serious about the craft but lighthearted enough to enjoy the process
Show Notes
Find Zuoyi Phang on Instagram
Triangle Rock Club
Siege Climbing
An Episode of Affirmations: Battling Imposter Syndrome with Ethan Paris
Closing Notes
If you’d like to nominate someone as a guest next guest, have a topic you want to see us tackle or have questions, we’d love for you to reach out. You can find our pitch form here.
The Impact Driver Podcast is a production of the Climbing Business Journal. Today’s episode is sponsored by Rúngne, Cascade Specialty, Trango, Approach and Onsite. It was edited and produced by Holly Yu Tung Chen, Megan Cheek, Scott Rennak and Joe Robinson, and our theme music is by Devin Dabney.

Building Gyms and a Career in Climbing – Brett Jessen

In this episode, Scott Rennak interviews Brett Jessen, the Head of Climbing Environments at Bouldering Project. Brett talks about his extensive journey in the climbing industry, from his early days as a climber and routesetter in the ‘90s to his current role in building cutting-edge climbing gyms. He discusses the evolution of climbing gyms, the design and construction process, and the importance of community and culture in climbing. Brett also offers valuable advice for aspiring gym owners and reflects on the future of the climbing industry.
General Topics Covered
Brett’s path to his current role
Collaboration between architects and engineers during the design process
Advice for aspiring gym owners on understanding a market and building requirements
The significant planning and budgeting that comes with constructing a gym
Challenges of working with historical buildings
Importance of educating climbers about outdoor ethics
Show Notes
Bouldering Project
CBJ article about St. Paul BP
Thank you Rúngne, Approach, Essential, Flashed, and OnSite for your support! And thank you Devin Dabney for your music!

Inside USA Climbing’s Routesetting Program – Jeremy Ho

Today’s guest is Jeremy Ho, who many  know as JHo, one of the most recognizable names in the U.S. setting community. Jeremy has worked in the climbing industry since 2007, primarily as a routesetter, and has been a National Routesetter with USA Climbing since 2012. He now serves as USAC's National Routesetting Program Manager, helping shape education, pathways, and standards across the country. Previously, Jeremy was Director of Routesetting at Touchstone Climbing and Sportrock Climbing Centers, and he has set events ranging from USAC Team Trials and Open Bouldering Nationals to Bouldering World Cups and North American Cup Series competitions. Jeremy and host Holly Chen dive into leadership, development, and the realities of building a sustainable national routesetting pipeline in this episode.
General Topics Covered
Leading a national routesetting program and stepping into a national leadership role
Clearer USA Climbing pathways and clinic structure
Representation, access, and underrepresented setter initiatives
New prerequisites and partnerships (PRS clinics) to better prepare setters before entering USA Climbing clinics
Youth competition difficulty and long-term athlete retention
Bottlenecks and what really moves setters forward in the USAC pipeline
Crew selection, team cohesion, and why soft skills matter at high-level events
Show Notes
Find Jeremy Ho on Instagram 
USA Climbing Routesetter Resources 
USA Climbing Routesetter Pathway
Amy Stone Foundation
Closing Notes
If you’d like to nominate someone as a guest next guest, have a topic you want to see us tackle or have questions, we’d love for you to reach out. You can find our pitch form here.
The Impact Driver podcast is a production of the Climbing Business Journal. Today’s episode is sponsored by Rúngne, Approach, Essential, Onsite and Flashed. It was edited and produced by Holly Yu Tung Chen, Megan Cheek, Scott Rennak and Joe Robinson, and our theme music is by Devin Dabney.

Leading the World’s Largest Climbing Gym Chain – Anne-Worley Moelter

Today’s episode is a rare interview with Anne-Worley Moelter, one of the most accomplished and experienced professionals in the climbing industry. Currently she serves as CEO of Movement Climbing Gyms, the largest chain of climbing gyms in the world. But her start in our industry began over 25 years ago in Colorado, when she was a manager at Boulder’s first full climbing gym. She later co-founded the first Movement location with her husband Mike Moelter, after spending half a decade as USA Climbing’s first Executive Director. She’s also currently a Vice President of World Climbing, formerly the International Federation of Sport Climbing.
Through her wealth of experience, Anne-Worley has learned a lot about our industry, careers, personal and professional motivations for climbing, and much more. In this episode she sits down with Scott to share her insights, from leadership wisdom to stewardship guidance and beyond.
General Topics Covered
Anne-Worley’s background
Perspectives on climbing industry career development
Leadership culture to nurture careers
Unionization at Movement
How private equity can affect a business
Differentiation, competition and saturation
Stewardship of outdoor climbing spaces
Show Notes
Movement Climbing Gyms
Movement Instagram
CBJ Article with Anne-Worley Moelter
Thank you Rúngne, Rock Gym Pro, Kilter, Strati Climbing and Trango for your support!And thank you Devin Dabney for your music!

Doors, Not Walls: Rethinking Routesetting Pathways – Sierra McMurry

Today’s guest brings us back full circle to our first-ever episode of the Impact Driver Podcast, as we welcome Sierra McMurry (they/them) back to the show after two years. Sierra has been climbing for over a decade and routesetting for nearly as long, working at commercial gyms and competitions as a contract setter while balancing life as a PhD candidate in wildlife biology at North Carolina State University. Frequently traveling between the East and West, Sierra brings a wide range of setting styles and team experiences into every room they enter. They are a USAC Level 2 routesetter, with a growing focus on competition setting, education, and building safer, more inclusive pathways into the profession. Sierra and Holly dive into all those topics and more on CBJ’s first video podcast episode.
General Topics Covered
The anatomy of an ideal setting day (hint: good coffee)
Why competition boulders belong in commercial gyms
From “rose-colored glasses” to clearer instincts: spotting supportive crews, avoiding tokenism and building confidence through community
True inclusion versus performative allyship in routesetting
Soft skills as the make-or-break factor
USA Climbing pathways, changing rules and unintended “walls”: how language, requirements and culture can discourage emerging setters
Aesthetics, Instagram and the “before/after” boulder
Show Notes
Find Sierra McMurry on Instagram and their Ph.D Portfolio
The first Impact Driver Podcast episode: Sierra McMurry – Routesetting on Common and Uncommon Ground 
Routesetting Tips and Workflow feat. Sierra McMurry
Closing Notes
If you’d like to nominate someone as a guest next guest, have a topic you want to see us tackle or have questions, we’d love for you to reach out. You can find our pitch form here.
The Impact Driver Podcast is a production of the Climbing Business Journal. Today’s episode is sponsored by Rungne, Trango, Rock Gym Pro, Flashed and Onsite. It was edited and produced by Holly Yu Tung Chen, Megan Cheek, Scott Rennak and Joe Robinson, and our theme music is by Devin Dabney.

Lessons From the Sharp End of Modern Setting – Mike Bockino

The USA Climbing competition season is well underway and athletes are showing up to qualification events across the country. On this episode of The Impact Driver Podcast, host Holly Chen invites former USAC Routesetting Director Mike Bockino to chat all about competition setting.
Mike is someone who needs no introduction, but we’re going to introduce him anyway. Climbing since 1999 and setting commercially since 2009, Mike estimates that he has set over 150 competitions, including 28 National Championships and 6 World Cups. He bounced between Salt Lake City and Boise in his early setting days before landing at The Front Climbing Club, where he eventually became the Director of Setting. In 2020, he became USA Climbing’s Routesetting Director. Mike left that position in 2025 to join Essential Climbing. He is a USAC Level 5 National Head Routesetter, an IFSC Level 2 Routesetter, and a certified strength coach. When Mike is not setting or climbing, he enjoys making restaurant-grade tomato sauce.
General Topics Covered
Life of USAC’s Routesetting Director and what comes next
The evolution of difficulty in bouldering events
The specialization of setters: Why do setters often gravitate toward bouldering competitions?
Selective memory of competition setters: If competitions are so taxing, why do we keep doing it?
Setting for athletes versus setting for spectators
Assessing difficulty based on a setter’s abilities
How setters can manage the pressure of perfection and look past it
Don’t sleep on the soft skills of routesetting
Personal limits within routesetting: Do they exist?
Show Notes
Find Mike Bockino on Instagram
Essential Climbing Welcomes Mike Bockino to the Team
Mike’s blog
Closing Notes
If you’d like to nominate someone as a next guest, have a topic you want to see us tackle or have questions, we’d love for you to reach out. You can find our pitch form here.
The Impact Driver podcast is a production of the Climbing Business Journal. Today’s episode is sponsored by Approach and Butora. It was edited and produced by Holly Yu Tung Chen, Megan Cheek, Scott Rennak, and the team at CBJ. Our theme music is by Devin Dabney.

The Value of Collaboration in Gym Creation – Parker Simms

Today's episode features an interview with Parker Sims, founder of Gravity Bear, a new bouldering gym built inside a century-old, renovated building in downtown Tulsa, Oklahoma. Parker talks with host John Burgman about the process it took to bring this ambitious project to life, from managing construction timelines and subcontractors to refining the gym’s vision around a “minimum-viable-product” approach.
Throughout the conversation, Parker shares the challenges of acting as his own project manager, the importance of hiring the right team early, and how the gym’s design evolved to balance financial reality with addressing community needs. He also explains how his military background shaped his leadership style and resilience through the ups and downs of construction.
Listeners will hear how Parker drew inspiration from climbing gyms around the world, blending a European-style, café culture with a focus on creating a community gathering space and true “third place” for locals and visitors alike.
Tune in to learn how Gravity Bear came together—one deadline, renovation and lesson at a time.
General Topics Covered
Project Management and Construction Challenges
Team Building and Organizational Structure
Facility Vision with a Minimum-Viable-Product Focus
Building Renovation and Historical Preservation
Military Influence on Leadership and Business Philosophy
Competitive and Community Insights from Global Climbing Gyms
Show Notes
@climbgravitybear
Thank you Approach and Kilter for your support!And thank you Devin Dabney for your music!

The Art of Building Pump – Daniel Cornella

As the routesetting field continues to become more professionalized, so do our standards and expectations. On this episode of The Impact Driver Podcast, host Holly Chen talks with Colorado-based routesetter Daniel Cornella about the state of routesetting education and the elements of good competition sport routes.
Dan first discovered climbing thanks to his high school biology teacher, took a detour to serve in the Marines in California, and eventually found his way back to the Colorado climbing scene. In 2013, he was introduced to routesetting at Life Time Fitness by Matt Lloyd. If you’ve climbed in a Colorado gym in the last decade—from the iconic 90s-era gym Rock’n & Jam’n (now The Spot Thornton) to various Movement locations—chances are you’ve pulled on something set by Dan, who is now the Assistant Director of Routesetting at Movement’s Centennial facility.
Dan is also a USAC Level 4 Setter and has set for Youth Nationals, National Cups and Vail Citizens competitions. He has also chiefed half a dozen youth championship events. Outside of climbing, Dan works in high rigging for concerts at major Colorado venues, such as Ball Arena. Above all else, he is a proud husband and father.
General Topics Covered
A catch-22 of routesetting
How gyms can work internally to educate setters through a standardized pipeline
Balancing the creative and technical aspects when educating setters
Preparing routesetters for their first competition
Speed is style
The elements of a good skeleton for a rope route
Tips and tricks on building pump, from recreational to Olympian-level routes, and why every limb should have a job
Systematic forerunning and how to approach skeletons versus near-comp-ready routes
Show Notes
Find Dan Cornella on Instagram
Movement x B-Pump Collaboration Brings Japanese Routesetting and Training to Colorado
Rumble in the Rockies
Closing Notes
If you’d like to nominate someone as a next guest, have a topic you want to see us tackle or have questions, we’d love for you to reach out.
The Impact Driver Podcast is a production of the Climbing Business Journal. Today’s episode is sponsored by Essential Climbing and Strati. It was edited and produced by Holly Yu Tung Chen, Megan Cheek, Scott Rennak and the team at CBJ. Our theme music is by Devin Dabney.

A Pioneer of the Climbing Gym Industry – Mike Pont

This episode of the Climbing Business Journal podcast is a little historical. There is so much that is often recounted and celebrated related to the heritage and lineage of outdoor climbing, and there is an equally fascinating counterpart to that history with the history of indoor climbing. The wonderful industry that we have now with climbing gyms includes components that are largely unique to the indoor scene. Things like routesetting and artificial holds, coaches, comps…These elements didn't just appear suddenly in gyms; they had to germinate and develop over a long period of time. And that's not news to anyone who is listening to this podcast. It is worth pointing out that, more often than not, there was a person or a small group of people who were at the vanguard of those ideas and various developments.
That background leads to today's guest, Mike Pont. Mike was one of the people leading the charge in the earliest days of indoor climbing, and particularly the earliest days of routesetting. He was among the first group of people in the United States who actually thought of themselves as routesetters in the late 1980s and early 1990s, when climbing gyms were few and far between. And Mike Pont, along with a few other people, helped make routesetting a concept and helped put it into practice. Mike was also involved in organizing some of the earliest large-scale climbing competitions in the U.S. and was involved in the climbing portion of the ESPN X Games. He basically had a front row seat for the generational turnover in sport climbing and in the climbing industry that occurred in the 90s. Mike and host John Burgman get into all those instrumental beginnings for our industry on today’s show.
General Topics Covered
Early Climbing Experiences
The Birth of Routesetting
Competition Development
American League of Forerunners
ESPN X Games
Competition Routesetting
The New Generation of Climbers
Coming Full Circle
Show Notes
@mikepont1
Thank you EP Climbing and Rock Gym Pro for your support!And thank you Devin Dabney for your music!

So You Want to Host a Comp? Nickolas Gagliardi

On this episode of The Impact Driver Podcast, host Holly Chen sits down with Nickolas Gagliardi to get us thinking about USAC events as routesetters gear up for the upcoming youth competition season.
Nick started setting in 2015 in St. Paul, Minnesota. While that beginning was only ten years ago, Nick experienced the industry when many setters were still getting paid by the route and boulder, specifically: $7 a boulder, $11 a top-rope route, $15 a lead route and $26 for setting the roof. From there, Nick moved to Colorado where he set at the Earth Treks gyms—now Movement—before he finally landed in Portland, Oregon. Now, Nick is a USAC Level 3 routesetter and the Director of Setting at Portland Rock Gym. When he’s not setting, Nick is often climbing outdoors, playing video games, and trying to get better at Go.
General Topics Covered
The history of Portland Rock Gym’s Beaverton location, designed with setters and competitions in mind
Key elements of a competition-ready gym
Communicating with members about hosting USAC competitions
Preparing to host Youth Nationals
Lessons learned from hosting Youth Nationals—and what could be done differently next time
Managing relationships between in-house and guest setters
Setting novice routesetters up for success in their first competition
Professional development opportunities for experienced competition setters
Show Notes
Find Nick Gagliardi on Instagram
Portland Rock Gym
2025 Youth National Championships at the Portland Rock Gym, Beaverton
USA Climbing Routesetters
USAC Boulder QE Setting Guidelines and Top Rope/Lead Guidelines
USAC Rulebook
You’re Stronger if You’re Honest: Behind the Wrench With Abby Wilson 
More: other episodes of The Impact Driver Podcast that look at competition team dynamics: 
Setting the Tone: What Makes a Space Feel Good? – CBJ Podcast with Jesse Safford
No One Sets Alone: Collective Authorship – CBJ Podcast with Ruth Jang
“You Can Strip My Boulder.” – CBJ Podcast with Blake Green
Closing Notes
If you’d like to nominate someone as a next guest, have a topic you want to see us tackle or have questions, we’d love for you to reach out.
The Impact Driver podcast is a production of the Climbing Business Journal. Today’s episode is sponsored by Kilter and Bold Climbing. It was edited and produced by Holly Yu Tung Chen, Megan Cheek, Scott Rennak, and the team at CBJ. Our theme music is by Devin Dabney.