Climbing Business Journal Podcasts

Why the Midwest Is a Great Place for a Climbing Gym – Jonathan Landis

On this episode of the CBJ podcast, host John Burgman and Jonathan Landis, the CEO of Greater Heights, talk about the winding path from an idea to the construction and, finally, the grand opening of a new climbing gym. Greater Heights opened in early December 2024 in Fitchburg, Wisconsin—which is right around Madison—and has ropes, boulders and auto belays. The climbing walls at the gym are from Rockwerx, the flooring is from Asana, and Rock Gym Pro is the management software.
John and Jonathan chat all about the origin of Greater Heights and the origin of Jonathan's involvement with the gym. They discuss Jonathan's outlook on how climbing gyms are like a subscription service, in a way. They also focus on the Midwest as a good region for a climbing gym, and Jonathan, as a lifelong Midwesterner, offers some keen insights on getting one started.
General Topics Covered
Greater Heights' Origin and Background
Jonathan's Climbing Journey and Business Development
Finding the Right Space and Facility Considerations
Convincing Investors and Securing Financing
Risk Assessment and Business Threats
Midwest Market Analysis and Gym Appeal
Show Notes
Greater Heights
Find Greater Heights on Instagram: @gh.climbing
More background on the opening of Greater Heights:
New Full-Service Gym Is Coming to Wisconsin’s Capital This Winter
Thank you Approach and EP Climbing for your support!And thank you Devin Dabney for your music!

An Episode of Affirmations: Battling Imposter Syndrome – Ethan Paris

Today’s episode brings routesetter Ethan Paris to the recording studio.
Paris comes from a film and creative background, giving him a unique perspective on how routesetters operate in a space that can be defined half by art and half by design. Hailing from the Northeast, he moved to Colorado in 2024 to set at the Climbing Collective gyms in Longmont, Loveland and Greeley. Paris is a USAC Level 2 routesetter and has set for over 20 local and USAC competitions nationwide. He’s also participated in the Setter Showdown in Hawaii, taken setting clinics in London, and hopes to one day set for national-level events.
Host Holly Chen talks to Paris about the prevalence of imposter syndrome in the routesetting industry. They explore the origins and characteristics of the phenomenon, from the term’s conception in 1978 to how imposter syndrome impacts today’s modern routesetting community. They talk about how it manifests across the gender spectrum, and how difficult it can be to overcome. Finally, they discuss how community is often the ticket out.
General Topics Covered
Ethan Paris' Background
Defining Imposter Syndrome
Imposter Syndrome Manifestation
Community & Gender Factors
Gender and Imposter Syndrome
Combating Imposter Syndrome
Supporting Others
Creating Change
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Show Notes
Find Ethan Paris on Instagram
Climbing Collective
Psychotherapy Theory, Research and Practice Volume 15, #3, Fall 1978 – The Imposter Phenomenon in High Achieving Women: Dynamics and Therapeutic Intervention by Pauline Rose Clance and Suzanne Imes
New Yorker – Why Everyone Feels Like They’re Faking It by Leslie Jamison
Kaizen (Ky'zen), The Key to Japan's Competitive Success
Other CBJ interviews and podcast guests who have talked about imposter syndrome: 
Inclusion Takes Intention: Behind the Desk With Gabby Zonneveld at MetroRock
Vans on the Wall – CBJ Podcast with Ally Cruz
Keep Them Sketched Out – CBJ Podcast with Claire Kawainui Miller
The Top CBJ Podcast Episode of 2024 for Routesetters
Closing Notes
If you’d like to nominate someone as a next guest, have a topic you want to see us tackle, or have questions–we’d love for you to reach out here.
The Impact Driver podcast is a production of the Climbing Business Journal. Bold Climbing and Rock Gym Pro sponsor today's episode. It was edited and produced by Holly Chen, Scott Rennak, and the team at CBJ. Our theme music is by Devin Dabney.

Supporting the New Climber's Journey – Megan Cheek

On this episode of the Climbing Business Journal podcast, host John Burgman is joined by Megan Cheek. Megan is the Digital Marketing Manager and Content Strategist for Climbing Collective, which includes the Inner Peaks gyms in North Carolina, Philadelphia Rock Gyms in Pennsylvania, and Hudson Boulders in New York. They talk about what the Climbing Collective is and how several different gyms and gym brands operate within it. From there, they chat about Megan's role as a content strategist and what it means to create content for gyms these days.
John and Megan pinpoint the new Inner Peaks location, which is in the NoDa neighborhood of Charlotte. They discuss the NoDa gym's layout and the focus at the gym on the first-time climber’s journey. To that point, Megan provides some insights on how a gym's layout can help foster the development of a climber, from beginners to longtime members.
General Topics Covered
What is the Climbing Collective?
Megan’s Role in Marketing
Storytelling in Climbing
Adapting to Changing Marketing Trends
Inner Peaks Noda Design
Neurodiversity in Climbing
Staff Training on Failure
Is the Art of Projecting Lost Indoors?
Positive Experiences and Member Retention
Show Notes
@InnerPeaksClimbing
@PhilaRockGym
@HudsonBoulders
Thank you Butora and Rock Gym Pro for your support!And thank you Devin Dabney for your music!

Put A Drop In The Bucket When You Can – Taylor Fragomeni

In this episode, Impact Driver host Holly Chen speaks with Taylor Fragomeni. Like many other professional routesetters, Taylor's career started at her university's climbing wall, which for her was in in Bozeman, Montana, in 2012. Taylor then moved into working in the climbing space full-time. She's worn various hats over the years, the most significant being Head Routesetter and Head Coach at Spire Climbing and Fitness. She has set for dozens of local comps—many of which she chiefed—as well as several USAC youth comps up to the divisional level for both sport and bouldering. Now Taylor has stepped back from full-time routesetting to work with the Bozeman Climbing team again. She's also focusing on her own business, Tangent Climbing, where she coaches youth athletes, league climbers and other routesetters with the mission of helping folks develop a lifelong, sustainable relationship with the sport we love.
When she's not on the wall or mentoring the next generation, Taylor enjoys writing and listening to music, indulging in thrillers, and connecting with her community. On the podcast, Taylor and Holly talk about routesetting occupational hazards, both physical and mental burnout, and how to tackle these challenges. They dissect differences between common injuries in competition setting and commercial setting, how those injuries can lead to physical burnout in routesetting, and how you can form budget-conscious partnerships with local businesses that benefit routesetters. Taylor also speaks on private coaching and the inspiration behind her business. Finally, they break down some routesetting efficiencies and injury prevention tips for various levels of routesetting, workloads, and ability levels.
Thank you Butora and Essential Climbing for your support!And thank you Devin Dabney for your music!

Preserving Our Climbing Gym Culture – Garnet Moore

Today host Scott Rennak sits down with Garnet Moore, Executive Director of the Climbing Wall Association. Garnet is one of the most connected and central figures in the North American climbing industry, overseeing both the CWA and their annual trade show, the CWA Summit. His origins in the manufacturing side have equipped him with a wide perspective on the climbing industry and climbing culture. During his tenure at CWA, he has steered the organization through the COVID pandemic, helping industry businesses regain their footing and go from surviving to thriving. Today, he’s leading the charge to preserve the culture of personal responsibility in our climbing facilities. Scott and Garnet talk about all these topics and much more.
Thank you OnSite for your support!And thank you Devin Dabney for your music!

A Setter's Perspective on Sustainable Holds - Roy Quanstrom

Today's guest is Roy Quanstrom. Roy is a USA Climbing Level 4 Routesetter and he's a hold shaper, having created Trango's Fuegos Calientes and Khans shapes. He's also the facility sales coordinator at Trango. The main focus of today's episode is the idea of sustainability in the world of climbing holds. What does that even mean? How is sustainability achieved? Where are we at right now when it comes to sustainability in the climbing holds sector? And where are things going or where might things be going? So, if you've ever wondered about the green movement as it pertains to climbing holds, or if you've ever wondered about recycling climbing holds, this episode is for you. There's always more to say on such a big topic, and there are many hold brands and manufacturers coming together to drive the industry forward, but Roy packs a lot of valuable insights from his perspective as a setter and shaper into this conversation, as well as thoughts on how the routesetting trade has changed over time and what goes into a great crew.
Thank you OnSite for your support!And thank you Devin Dabney for your music!

The Setter in the Flatlands – Armen Avanessian

Today host Holly Chen meets with Armen Avanessian. Armen is the Head Routesetter and Operations Manager at Threshold Climbing in Oklahoma. Armen is a USAC Level 3 Routesetter and his setting career has spanned the state of Oklahoma, where he’s worked as a desk staff member, routesetter, and now head routesetter and routesetting consultant. Coming up for Armen is the bouldering divisionals event at his home gym as well as his first time being the chief routesetter for a regionals event. Outside of slinging plastic, Armen is a route developer with several first ascents of boulders in the Wichita Mountains National Wildlife Refuge up to V double digits. Armen began consulting for gyms earlier this year, helping routesetters and gym managers build their hold selection, design setting programs, and educate setters. Also, this year Armen has been trying to diversify his hobbies and has picked up the guitar after a long hiatus.
Holly and Armen’s chat gets pretty technical, but they start off with an explainer on why gyms and routesetters might need consulting. They also talk about how the hold selection for the opening set can determine the style of climbing in the gym, and what differentiates an old-school hold selection from a contemporary or modern one. Armen offers a lot of practical tips on making the best out of tight hold budgets. He and Holly dissect the pros and cons of various grading systems. They touch on routesetter education, communication, leadership, and the four IFSC style components, getting into a deep discussion on which moves fit into which style component.
Thank you Bold Climbing and RGP for your support!And thank you Devin Dabney for your music!

Trends, Mentorship, Communication, and Gym Management – Josh Haynes

Welcome back to the Climbing Business Journal podcast. Today, host John Burgman chats with Josh Haynes. Josh first made waves in the industry as an elite-level climber, crushing top-shelf grades like V14s, 514b's, 514c's. But he also worked as a routesetter, which he talks about in this episode, and he had various staff roles at several different gyms. Most recently, he was hired as the new manager of Uplift Climbing in Shoreline, Washington. John and Josh talk about what Josh has gathered from those myriad experiences and how he plans to apply his insights to the managerial role at Uplift. A lot of Josh's wisdom about climbing gym management can be applied to communication at any staff level and also in any tier of the industry, not just managerial and not just at climbing gyms. We hope you enjoy this conversation with Josh Haynes!
Thank you OnSite for your support!And thank you Devin Dabney for your music!

Vans on the Wall – Ally Cruz

Today host Holly Chen chats with Ally Cruz. Ally is a Trango Grassroots Athlete and a USAC Level 3 Routesetter with a decade of climbing experience. Her routesetting career began at her university's climbing wall and quickly graduated to a commercial setting job at Edgeworks Climbing and Fitness in Seattle, Washington. From there, she bounced to Utah, back to Edgeworks, and eventually settled in her current position as Assistant Headsetter at the Seattle Bouldering Project Poplar gym. She has set and chiefed for many USAC-sanctioned comps and most recently set for the Vail Citizens event and helped with the Vail NACS as well. Ally has also set for notable affinity comps, such as Crux Fest and Impact. Outside of climbing, Ally is a well-rounded outdoorswoman; she loves mountain biking and surfing.
In today’s episode, Holly and Ally take a nuanced look at tokenization. They discuss the signs that someone is being tokenized, the unseen harms of tokenization, and how it can pigeonhole setters into roles that limit their progression and professional development. Ally is a real trooper as she and Holly dive into a vulnerable topic about how tokenization can lead minorities to perceiving other minorities as competition, rather than support. But they do turn the topic around to the bright side and discuss tangible tips that setters, headsetters and chief routesetters can employ to make sure tokenization does not happen on their teams. And if you’re wondering what tokenization has to do with Vans shoes, be sure to listen to the full episode below.
Thank you Trango and EP Climbing for your support!And thank you Devin Dabney for your music!

Making the Great Leap in Business – Francis Larose

Today's guest is the founder and CEO of OnSite, Francis Larose. OnSite is based in Montreal, Quebec, and made history this past summer when it became likely the first North America-based wall manufacturer to complete a commercial climbing gym project in Europe. OnSite making the leap from the North American market to the European market is the reverse of what typically happens; much more common has been European builders pursuing gym projects in North America. That accomplishment for OnSite is a focal point of today’s episode, but Francis and host John Burgman cover a lot of other ground too, including Francis’s prior work in the video game industry, OnSite’s urban boulders, and advice for other North American brands looking to go global.
Thank you OnSite for your support!And thank you Devin Dabney for your music!