Climbing Business Journal Podcasts

Balancing Art and Functionality in Hold Shaping – Joey Jannsen

Joey is the co-founder and owner of his own hold company, called Ocelot Grips, out of Oregon. But Ocelot Grips is the end product, or at least the current end, of many, many years of Joey working in the industry as a hold shaper. He has designed and shaped holds for a lot of different brands over the years. He gets into his story in more detail in this episode, but he also offers some fascinating insights on his artistic philosophy for shapes and how that works in conjunction with his philosophy for functionality in shapes. Because hold shaping is like routesetting in that sense; it’s partially an artistic craft as well as a utilitarian or commercial craft. Art, commerce, functionality—it's all wrapped up in the life of a hold shaper. And, as a longtime shaper and setter, Joey is a great guest for riffing on all of those finer points of the craft.
General Topics Covered
Introduction and Industry Status
Joey's Background and Entry into Climbing
Oregon's Significance to Hold Shaping
Hold Design Philosophy and Learning Experiences
Aesthetics vs. Function in Hold Design
Founding Ocelot Grips
Current Work and Future Plans
Show Notes
Ocelot Grips
Ocelot Grips Instagram: @ocelotgrips
Thank you EP Climbing and Rock Gym Pro for your support!And thank you Devin Dabney for your music!

No One Sets Alone: Collective Authorship – Ruth Jang

Today’s episode brings Ruth Jang to the show. Ruth is a routesetter at Central Rock Gym in Atlanta, Georgia. She first picked up setting as a bucket list challenge and because she saw a gap in the gym: not enough entry-level, competition-style boulders for people to learn from. Her thought? “Why not infiltrate from the inside and learn from the best?” Before she knew it, she was pulled into the gravity of the setting world. Today, Ruth is a USAC Level 3 routesetter with her first national event on the horizon this June. She’s also set for citizen comps like Method Underground. Before setting, Ruth came from a background in academia and biomedical research, where she studied stem cells and the opioid epidemic.
General Topics Covered
How a negative became a positive: Ruth’s unusual introduction to climbing
An Eastern versus Western approach to team dynamics: collective and individual identity
What is true collaboration in routesetting?
The similarities between team sports and routesetting
Communication and how it can change team dynamics
Poetry and routesetting
Handling arrogance in the setting industry
Show Notes
Find Ruth Jang on Instagram
Find Ruth’s poems, Logic of the Woods, all proceeds go towards the Southeastern Climbing Coalition (SCC) and Training Indonesians for Transition to Institutional Programs (TITIP).
Central Rock Gym
What is Futsal?
The difference between Eastern and Western (collective versus individualistic). Further readings: 
How East and West think in profoundly different ways, David Robson, BBC
Cultural differences are far more nuanced than East vs West, Matt Hudson, Psyche
“I think, therefore I am.”
Resources and further reading on Eating Disorders: 
National Eating Disorder Association
National Institute of Mental Health - Eating Disorders
Closing Notes
If you’d like to nominate someone as a guest next guest, have a topic you want to see us tackle, or have questions, we’d love for you to reach out. 
The Impact Driver podcast is a production of the Climbing Business Journal. Today’s episode is sponsored by Essential Climbing and Trango. It was edited and produced by Holly Yu Tung Chen, Scott Rennak, and the team at CBJ. Our theme music is by Devin Dabney. 

Getting the Most Out of a College Market – Brian Doscher

Brian is the General Manager and Co-Owner of Bluestem Boulders in Ames, Iowa. It's a fairly new gym, having opened last November. The climbing walls and flooring at the gym are by Onsite, and the CRM software is by GymDesk. But what's noteworthy for today's conversation is that Bluestem is only two miles from the campus of Iowa State University, so students from the university form a large customer base for the gym.
There are many other climbing gyms around the country near colleges, where students already frequent the gym. And there are also gyms near a college that are trying to figure out how to break into the university market, asking: “How do we get more of those college students to come into our gym? How do you draw the college demographic into a gym? How can a gym work with a nearby college? What kind of programs seem to resonate most with college students?” There are no magic answers to these questions, but there is plenty to talk about when it comes to better serving a college population, and that’s the subject John gets into today with Brian.
General Topics Covered
College Demographics and Gym Proximity
Marketing to College Students
Programming for College Students
System Boards and College Appeal
Gym Operations and Observations
Show Notes
Bluestem Boulders
Find Bluestem Boulders on Instagram: @bluestemboulders
More background on the opening of Bluestem Boulders: Bouldering Gym Opens Two Miles From Iowa State University
Thank you Butora and RGP for your support!And thank you Devin Dabney for your music!

Skill and Strength: Are They Synonymous in Setting? Iza Nowak

Today’s episode brings routesetter Iza Nowak to the podcast. Nowak is a team climber turned routesetting powerhouse. She started climbing as a kid and has almost two decades of time on rocks and plastic. Her setting career has spanned multiple states. Now, Nowak is a lead setter at Sport Rock in Washington, D.C. She is a USAC Level 3 routesetter with competition experience at all levels, from climbing leagues to Qualifying Events to high-level citizens’ comps, like Method Underground and national-level bouldering and sport competitions. Nowak has also traveled internationally to set, having recently returned from the Norwegian Youth Championships. Nowak brings all that knowledge to the show, diving into fundamentals for both competition and commercial routesetting, skills for leading a setting crew, and much more.
General Topics Covered
Iza's First Impressions of Routesetting as a Team Kid
True or False Game of Routesetting
What it Takes to Be a Commercial Routesetter
The Qualities of a Good Headsetter
Movement Understanding vs. Raw Strength
What it Takes to be a Competition Routesetter
USA Climbing Standards and Pathways
Career Growth and Development
Show Notes
Find Iza Nowak on Instagram
Sportrock Climbing Centers
USA Climbing Routesetter Pathway Chart
The book where the 60/100 statistic between genders on job applications can be found is Lean In: Women, Work, and the Will to Lead.
This statistic was widely attributed to an internal report at Hewlett-Packard, although this claim has been shown to lack solid evidence and is likely based on a subjective observation rather than a rigorous study.
Other, more robust studies like this one in the European Journal of Social Psychology, have disputed this statistic.
Closing Notes
If you’d like to nominate someone as a guest next guest, have a topic you want to see us tackle, or have questions–we’d love for you to reach out here.
The Impact Driver podcast is a production of the Climbing Business Journal. Today’s episode is sponsored by by Strati and Kilter. It was edited and produced by Holly Yu Tung Chen, Scott Rennak, and the team at CBJ. Our theme music is by Devin Dabney.

Why the Midwest Is a Great Place for a Climbing Gym – Jonathan Landis

On this episode of the CBJ podcast, host John Burgman and Jonathan Landis, the CEO of Greater Heights, talk about the winding path from an idea to the construction and, finally, the grand opening of a new climbing gym. Greater Heights opened in early December 2024 in Fitchburg, Wisconsin—which is right around Madison—and has ropes, boulders and auto belays. The climbing walls at the gym are from Rockwerx, the flooring is from Asana, and Rock Gym Pro is the management software.
John and Jonathan chat all about the origin of Greater Heights and the origin of Jonathan's involvement with the gym. They discuss Jonathan's outlook on how climbing gyms are like a subscription service, in a way. They also focus on the Midwest as a good region for a climbing gym, and Jonathan, as a lifelong Midwesterner, offers some keen insights on getting one started.
General Topics Covered
Greater Heights' Origin and Background
Jonathan's Climbing Journey and Business Development
Finding the Right Space and Facility Considerations
Convincing Investors and Securing Financing
Risk Assessment and Business Threats
Midwest Market Analysis and Gym Appeal
Show Notes
Greater Heights
Find Greater Heights on Instagram: @gh.climbing
More background on the opening of Greater Heights:
New Full-Service Gym Is Coming to Wisconsin’s Capital This Winter
Thank you Approach and EP Climbing for your support!And thank you Devin Dabney for your music!

An Episode of Affirmations: Battling Imposter Syndrome – Ethan Paris

Today’s episode brings routesetter Ethan Paris to the recording studio.
Paris comes from a film and creative background, giving him a unique perspective on how routesetters operate in a space that can be defined half by art and half by design. Hailing from the Northeast, he moved to Colorado in 2024 to set at the Climbing Collective gyms in Longmont, Loveland and Greeley. Paris is a USAC Level 2 routesetter and has set for over 20 local and USAC competitions nationwide. He’s also participated in the Setter Showdown in Hawaii, taken setting clinics in London, and hopes to one day set for national-level events.
Host Holly Chen talks to Paris about the prevalence of imposter syndrome in the routesetting industry. They explore the origins and characteristics of the phenomenon, from the term’s conception in 1978 to how imposter syndrome impacts today’s modern routesetting community. They talk about how it manifests across the gender spectrum, and how difficult it can be to overcome. Finally, they discuss how community is often the ticket out.
General Topics Covered
Ethan Paris' Background
Defining Imposter Syndrome
Imposter Syndrome Manifestation
Community & Gender Factors
Gender and Imposter Syndrome
Combating Imposter Syndrome
Supporting Others
Creating Change
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Show Notes
Find Ethan Paris on Instagram
Climbing Collective
Psychotherapy Theory, Research and Practice Volume 15, #3, Fall 1978 – The Imposter Phenomenon in High Achieving Women: Dynamics and Therapeutic Intervention by Pauline Rose Clance and Suzanne Imes
New Yorker – Why Everyone Feels Like They’re Faking It by Leslie Jamison
Kaizen (Ky'zen), The Key to Japan's Competitive Success
Other CBJ interviews and podcast guests who have talked about imposter syndrome: 
Inclusion Takes Intention: Behind the Desk With Gabby Zonneveld at MetroRock
Vans on the Wall – CBJ Podcast with Ally Cruz
Keep Them Sketched Out – CBJ Podcast with Claire Kawainui Miller
The Top CBJ Podcast Episode of 2024 for Routesetters
Closing Notes
If you’d like to nominate someone as a next guest, have a topic you want to see us tackle, or have questions–we’d love for you to reach out here.
The Impact Driver podcast is a production of the Climbing Business Journal. Bold Climbing and Rock Gym Pro sponsor today's episode. It was edited and produced by Holly Chen, Scott Rennak, and the team at CBJ. Our theme music is by Devin Dabney.

Supporting the New Climber's Journey – Megan Cheek

On this episode of the Climbing Business Journal podcast, host John Burgman is joined by Megan Cheek. Megan is the Digital Marketing Manager and Content Strategist for Climbing Collective, which includes the Inner Peaks gyms in North Carolina, Philadelphia Rock Gyms in Pennsylvania, and Hudson Boulders in New York. They talk about what the Climbing Collective is and how several different gyms and gym brands operate within it. From there, they chat about Megan's role as a content strategist and what it means to create content for gyms these days.
John and Megan pinpoint the new Inner Peaks location, which is in the NoDa neighborhood of Charlotte. They discuss the NoDa gym's layout and the focus at the gym on the first-time climber’s journey. To that point, Megan provides some insights on how a gym's layout can help foster the development of a climber, from beginners to longtime members.
General Topics Covered
What is the Climbing Collective?
Megan’s Role in Marketing
Storytelling in Climbing
Adapting to Changing Marketing Trends
Inner Peaks Noda Design
Neurodiversity in Climbing
Staff Training on Failure
Is the Art of Projecting Lost Indoors?
Positive Experiences and Member Retention
Show Notes
@InnerPeaksClimbing
@PhilaRockGym
@HudsonBoulders
Thank you Butora and Rock Gym Pro for your support!And thank you Devin Dabney for your music!

Put A Drop In The Bucket When You Can – Taylor Fragomeni

In this episode, Impact Driver host Holly Chen speaks with Taylor Fragomeni. Like many other professional routesetters, Taylor's career started at her university's climbing wall, which for her was in in Bozeman, Montana, in 2012. Taylor then moved into working in the climbing space full-time. She's worn various hats over the years, the most significant being Head Routesetter and Head Coach at Spire Climbing and Fitness. She has set for dozens of local comps—many of which she chiefed—as well as several USAC youth comps up to the divisional level for both sport and bouldering. Now Taylor has stepped back from full-time routesetting to work with the Bozeman Climbing team again. She's also focusing on her own business, Tangent Climbing, where she coaches youth athletes, league climbers and other routesetters with the mission of helping folks develop a lifelong, sustainable relationship with the sport we love.
When she's not on the wall or mentoring the next generation, Taylor enjoys writing and listening to music, indulging in thrillers, and connecting with her community. On the podcast, Taylor and Holly talk about routesetting occupational hazards, both physical and mental burnout, and how to tackle these challenges. They dissect differences between common injuries in competition setting and commercial setting, how those injuries can lead to physical burnout in routesetting, and how you can form budget-conscious partnerships with local businesses that benefit routesetters. Taylor also speaks on private coaching and the inspiration behind her business. Finally, they break down some routesetting efficiencies and injury prevention tips for various levels of routesetting, workloads, and ability levels.
Thank you Butora and Essential Climbing for your support!And thank you Devin Dabney for your music!

Preserving Our Climbing Gym Culture – Garnet Moore

Today host Scott Rennak sits down with Garnet Moore, Executive Director of the Climbing Wall Association. Garnet is one of the most connected and central figures in the North American climbing industry, overseeing both the CWA and their annual trade show, the CWA Summit. His origins in the manufacturing side have equipped him with a wide perspective on the climbing industry and climbing culture. During his tenure at CWA, he has steered the organization through the COVID pandemic, helping industry businesses regain their footing and go from surviving to thriving. Today, he’s leading the charge to preserve the culture of personal responsibility in our climbing facilities. Scott and Garnet talk about all these topics and much more.
Thank you OnSite for your support!And thank you Devin Dabney for your music!

A Setter's Perspective on Sustainable Holds - Roy Quanstrom

Today's guest is Roy Quanstrom. Roy is a USA Climbing Level 4 Routesetter and he's a hold shaper, having created Trango's Fuegos Calientes and Khans shapes. He's also the facility sales coordinator at Trango. The main focus of today's episode is the idea of sustainability in the world of climbing holds. What does that even mean? How is sustainability achieved? Where are we at right now when it comes to sustainability in the climbing holds sector? And where are things going or where might things be going? So, if you've ever wondered about the green movement as it pertains to climbing holds, or if you've ever wondered about recycling climbing holds, this episode is for you. There's always more to say on such a big topic, and there are many hold brands and manufacturers coming together to drive the industry forward, but Roy packs a lot of valuable insights from his perspective as a setter and shaper into this conversation, as well as thoughts on how the routesetting trade has changed over time and what goes into a great crew.
Thank you OnSite for your support!And thank you Devin Dabney for your music!